Apexi powerfc

[eyefi]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7966644432&catego ry=33596&sspagename=WDVW

just incase anyone is interested.

[Leeky]

I just ordered a TRL fuel cut defender and was going to get an Apexi avcr boost controller and SAFC2 for the supra... so we're talking ?500...

would this Apexi Power FC be the smarter buy?

I basicly want to remove fuel cut, up boost and provide fueling/mapping for up to 1.5bar boost - so if this the better way to do it?

I have a UK Spec car, will swapping my ECU for this mean everything else will still work properly like my alarm for example? http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

cheers

[Martin F]

I think a response on this one may not be forthcoming as not many people have experience with power FC on the JZA80. Also one thing they fail to mention in their listing (however i'm sure they've been more accurate than me trying to list one in Kanji ) is that the unit will only work on Manual cars, it mentions it in the picture of the handbook.

[Leeky]

Ahhhh, didnt notice that...

AVCR & SAFC it is then http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Whifbitz]

I'd go with a Power FC over anything piggy back anyday yep. I've mapped a few of these now on the Supra's and countless on Skylines, very easy to use and access to all the right bits to tune your car perfectly. Only problem is they are only available for manual pre-VVTi cars.
I can get hold of them if needed, around ?800 approx. new.

[Martin F]

Maybe a good option. How does it cope with accessories like AC, Power steering and such like ?

Also how about cold start as it's a full replacement

[Whifbitz]

Very very well indeed, it is plug and play, you bolt it in and off you go. Idling & cruising stuff you wont have to touch much, only the full throttle/boost stuff. Piece of cake. If you want something that will drive like a stock ECU should then this is what you want, its easy to get it right. Unlike AEM's which can take ages to get perfect. Not knocking the AEM as I think its the best available especially for the money(I have one in my Supra). The PFC is just easier to setup so will cost less. Its ok for me as I can spend the odd evening here and there perfecting my maps, the average punted cant do that.

[Stevie Boy]

By the sounds of things Leeky has an Auto. What's the best cost effective option out there for Auto's??

[Whifbitz]

Cheapest would be piggy back, Greddy emanage as you know Stevie boy, apart from that its AEM if you want control over ignition and fuel.

[Stevie Boy]

Just checking there wasn't an alternative plug and play stand alone for Auto's i didn't know about, grass always looks greener on the other side of the Piggy back fence!

Mates with Skyline GTS-t and RX7 have both gone the Power FC route, both have been VERY pleased with results and cost.
RX7, which is pretty much BPU came in at 345bhp (apparently at the wheels) on RR last week, think GTS with zoorst, filter + Profec-B weighed in at 320.

[Whifbitz]

Yep, cant beat them on value, for the money they are the daddies.

[Nathan]

Quote[/b] (Whifbitz @ April 26 2005,09:58)]Cheapest would be piggy back, Greddy emanage as you know Stevie boy, apart from that its AEM if you want control over ignition and fuel.
Another trader who has mysteriously forgotton about the F-Con SZ perhaps? http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/devil.gif

[Whifbitz]

Nope, I haven't, I'd fit loads of them if HKS gave out the software for them....without that its useless to me.

[Leeky]

Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated.

I just got my TRL VFCC delivered, small arent they http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif and i picked up a Blitz SBC ID2 for a mere ?200. - bargain

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/buttrock.gif

[Whifbitz]

Your better off with a Greddy emanage than an AFC, that way you have control over the fuelling and ignition. For a little more its worth the extra. If you want to run that sort of boost its advisable to have control over ignition as well. You'll also need a pressure sensor if you want to run more than 18psi as the stock one will run out of puff.

[Nathan]

Quote[/b] (Whifbitz @ April 26 2005,18:07)]Nope, I haven't, I'd fit loads of them if HKS gave out the software for them....without that its useless to me.
For sure that point is very well taken, but the thread is about what options there are.

Just because you can't sell them one shouldn't mean that the F-Con option is conveniently forgotton. I'd like to hope that you can feel this is a fair point.

[Whifbitz]

I never said it wasn't an option, I'm just giving my advise, if you want to advise differently thats up to you.

[Nathan]

You never said it was an option either.....

OK Paul, I just expected that you of all people, who know just how much work we have done with auto supras and F-Cons might just have mentioned it, especially because of our relationship. Thanks for your reply though it helps me a lot.

Personally, I'm quite happy to give options for customers especially on a forum where the info might be handy to others even if I don't offer the parts myself, if it means the punter gets exactly what they want. But then I do try hard to be unbiased.

Leeky: Whatever you go for I hope it works out well and doesn't need to to be replaced in the future. At 1.5 bar I would personally say you are into the territory of removing the stock MAF and you may want to consider this to make the car futureproof. If you get an ECU smart enough to take control of the injectors directly then you may as well throw it in the bin.

[Whifbitz]

Petty petty petty, whatever, if you have a problem with me just email me or ring me if you want to talk about it.

[Nathan]

Petty.....!

No further comment here Paul. I agree this isn't the place.

[Stevie Boy]

Just outta curiousity, but why are there so few HKS appointed or authorised F-con fitters/mappers?

Just puzzles me what could be so significant in approval criteria that HKS appoint so few. Surely it would be in HKS's interest to have a few more so that they can sell more products?

Answers on a Postcard, with as little sl*gging off as poss please.

[Whifbitz]

Good question Stevie Boy, I'd love to get my hands on the software so I can a) map cars that have them fitted already and b) have the option to fit/map.

[Nathan]

Stevie- The No1 reason why HKS do not make the software more available to appointed dealers is because they have more than a few reservations about the ability of UK 'traders' to map the things and feel confident that there won't be any bad comebacks to the HKS name. For starters the basic requirements of the F-Con contract states that you should have a long standing bona-fide business (clearly this relates to not going bust and starting up under different names) and provide make/serial number/handling capacity of your dyno so thats half the UK 'tuners' ruled out for a start.

I'm not saying their F-Con policy is right (although I can see where they are coming from), just giving you an answer to your question.

[Stevie Boy]

Furry muff, i guess that makes a some sense but with most things modified don't they usually come with a disclaimer that covers the manufacturer of the product from incorrect installation/use unless goods are actually faulty etc, etc.

Last question i promise! How many approved F-Con mappers are there in the UK Nathan?

[Nathan]

I agree, I think HKS are a little harsh but it's their product and clearly they feel it's good enough to not hand out willy-nilly. They just don't want badly running cars out there using F-Cons, even though we all know it's not the hardware that would be the problem. It's obvious that they would rather sell considerably fewer units and have some sort of control over maintaining standards than sell bucketloads to all and sundry and risk people moaning about how badly their car runs with an F-Con.

At the mo theres 4 F-Con mappers in the UK- us, Abbey, GT-Art and Owen Developments. There will soon be a 5th though, TDI North http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Martin F]

Quote[/b] (Stevie Boy @ April 27 2005,15:25)]Furry muff, i guess that makes a some sense but with most things modified don't they usually come with a disclaimer that covers the manufacturer of the product from incorrect installation/use unless goods are actually faulty etc, etc.
Consider this scenario:

Owner John Smith has his car modified and tuner CoreTechs install an FCON-S but struggle to map it correctly. John Smith gets pissed off with his car so decides to sell it on to Joe Bloggs.

Joe buys the car and it never really seems to run right. Where will he lay the blame ?
Previous owner - possibly
CoreTechs - possibly, if he's actually aware that they tuned it.
The HKS Fcon-S - very possibly if he gets wind of some BS and becomes convinced that the unit is a hunk of junk. Would he buy another HKS product ?

Also then Joe could go onto x,y and z forum and start spouting his perception of things.

So HKS are only trying to protect their name, and in this day and age it's quite unusual for a tuning company to put their reputation before the possibility of a sale.

I wouldn't say their ethics here are right or wrong, but it says something that they are obviously in a comfortable enough position financially to take this line and not chase every dollar.

[Nathan]

I don't think I could have written that better myself Martin. Bang on.

Kind of reinforced by the fact that enough people slate the F-Con through ignorance as it is. It's amazing how many tuners are quick to doubt, put down or even mention the F-Con, when all it's really down to is the fact that they can't swell their bank balance through it's sale. Thats what I find a shame because I know of one quite well known Supra owner who has been sold a pile of junk as an ECU solution for his VVti simply because thats all the trader could offer. The car isn't, and never will be right and it's looking very likely he will come to us for an F-Con Pro or possibly a full on Motec. Maybe I'm too soft in my older years and dont sell nearly as hard as I could http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Stevie Boy]

Quote[/b] (Martin F @ April 27 2005,19:02)]Consider this scenario:

Owner John Smith has his car modified and tuner CoreTechs install an FCON-S but struggle to map it correctly. John Smith gets pissed off with his car so decides to sell it on to Joe Bloggs.

Joe buys the car and it never really seems to run right. Where will he lay the blame ?
Previous owner - possibly
CoreTechs - possibly, if he's actually aware that they tuned it.
The HKS Fcon-S - very possibly if he gets wind of some BS and becomes convinced that the unit is a hunk of junk. Would he buy another HKS product ?

Also then Joe could go onto x,y and z forum and start spouting his perception of things.

So HKS are only trying to protect their name, and in this day and age it's quite unusual for a tuning company to put their reputation before the possibility of a sale.

I wouldn't say their ethics here are right or wrong, but it says something that they are obviously in a comfortable enough position financially to take this line and not chase every dollar.
I guess the questions i raised to myself from a consumer point of view once was, on an aging car like the MKIV in persuit of not owning another moneypit like a Lancia Integrale i once owned, as much as i'm not too keen on 2nd hand products, many opportunities had arisen in the past where i could have bought 2nd HKS products like an F-Con from a written off or removed from pre-auction/export JDM cars.

Probly not a good idea anyway, but where i thought i may have got hold of such a product 2nd i.e. situation Joe Bloggs would be in after buying the car from Mr Smith, what sort of service could i expect from an authorised HKS mapper, would they have me by the danglies as far as sorting out any potential mapping probs because i wouldn't really have any choice on who to take the car to due to a monopolising as it were between the almost less than a handfull of approved mappers.

I see where your coming from anyway, i guess i just thought surely there can't only be 4 soon to be 5mappers in the UK competent enough and with the facilities to carry out routine mapping checks and adjustments, if they were req'd.

[Martin F]

IMO I think they are very valid points, but I would guess the men at the top of HKS consider this service required covered by their network of dealers.

As for whether one of those dealers would squeeze your nether regions, well all you can hope is that HKS pay as much detailed attention to the other areas of a tuners business as they do to their technical ability.