Single turbo cast manifolds

[wez]

Hey Guys,

Check this out :-

http://www.suprastore.com/tusutuma94t0.html

Works out pretty damn cheap for a single turbo manifold, looks well made as well. I am looking at options at the moment as i have been speaking to Garrett about getting a GT3540, not sure if this has been tried on a supra yet.

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Chris Wilson]

I was all a dither for a moment, I am looking for a cast iron single turbo manifold myself, but that one is truly horrible. The runner lengths are wildly different and the wastegate port is a bit bizarrely located, too. If you find anything more equal length in cast iron I'd be very keen to see it. You are right in looking to a cast manifold though, tubular ones WILL crack or break unless very well developed with properly specced support brackets. Even Ford had a shed load of trouble with the Cosworth Sierra turbo fixings, so if a major manufacturer has a problem with a production part be sure that a very very low volume one may have some surprises in store further down the road.

[wez]

Hiya Chris,

Power house racing also sell a cast manifold but there is only one pic and it doesn`t show the manifold very well, would you say the turbonetics one is a no go then?

Wez

PS how are your rads doing, any results on them yet?

[Chris Wilson]

Quote[/b] (wez @ Nov. 22 2003,22:34)]Hiya Chris,

Power house racing also sell a cast manifold but there is only one pic and it doesn`t show the manifold very well, would you say the turbonetics one is a no go then?

Wez

PS how are your rads doing, any results on them yet?
Got a link to the Powerhous manifold pic please?

I don't think the other one is much cop, no.

I am waiting to get firm interest from 6 people before ordering, my supplier has requested I order in multiples of 6 or my price goes up (a lot...). Got 3 firm people right now. Went through this with the IC's, it's a chicken and egg situation, people want to see a rad, I can't make it viable without commiting to too many... PITA, but we will get there I am sure. http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Martin F]

That turbonetics one reminds me of a pinto exhaust manifold.

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biglaugh.gif

Chris can you counteract different runner lengths by having differing runner diameters ? i.e. if its a long runner make the diameter smaller so that the gasses travel quicker.

[Chris Wilson]

Quote[/b] (Martin F @ Nov. 22 2003,23:05)]That turbonetics one reminds me of a pinto exhaust manifold.

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biglaugh.gif

Chris can you counteract different runner lengths by having differing runner diameters ? i.e. if its a long runner make the diameter smaller so that the gasses travel quicker.
Ummm, possibly, to a point, but not ideal as gas velocity will change, you want to keep velocity equal, but maximise standing wave time reversion at the correct point in the engine cycle. It's VERY complex. In fact no one has even developed a computer programme that they have released on general sale to really work it out. I suspect even high level engine makers just bugger about with lengths and log the results, myself http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Chris Wilson]

The Pinto ones are a lot beter, reminds me more of one on my mothers old Ford Consul... http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[wez]

Hey Chris,

The only pic that is on the website is this :-

http://www.powerhouseracing.com/supratt_streetsingle.shtml

Can`t see very well http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif

[wez]

Hey Guys,

Just found this, check out the second item down :-

http://www.ultimate-racing.com/CustomF....n.shtml (http://www.ultimate-racing.com/CustomFabrication/CustomFabrication.shtml)

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/buttrock.gif

[alex h]

Sorry Wez, but that's a pile 'o crap too http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Take a look at the HKS Tubular one. The shape of maifold you are looking for would be more like these....but cast not tubular.
http://www.4redlinemotorsports.com/acatalog/Turbo_Manifolds_03.html

[wez]

Bugger http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/down.gif

I think its a fecking joke that the manifolds cost the same if not more than the fricking turbo http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

I have found some custom manifold makers but need to speak with them on the phone tomorrow.

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[Chris Rocks]

The yanks seem to run the cast manifolds without any problems...

not the ideal setup granted but for those wishing to `go single` without spending an arm and a leg it seem to be a viable option, especially if your BHP goals are 500-600 bhp.

I know one of the Roadracer blokes on SF had no end of problems with tubular manifolds.

surely either one has to be better than the Sound-Performance adaptor for the stock manifold, again tho a lot of people seem to have gone for this option and have gained very good results.

-c-

[Chris Wilson]

Quote[/b] (alex h @ Nov. 23 2003,13:08)]Sorry Wez, but that's a pile 'o crap too http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Take a look at the HKS Tubular one. The shape of maifold you are looking for would be more like these....but cast not tubular.
http://www.4redlinemotorsports.com/acatalog/Turbo_Manifolds_03.html
OK, just come home from the pub, but aren't all 3 manifolds shown here the exact same units?

[wez]

Prob, with different companies branding them
.

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/worthnopics.gif

[alex h]

Hey I didn't say I liked the pic's they were just the first ones I came across.... http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[alex h]

Quote[/b] (Chris Rocks @ Nov. 23 2003,15:47)]The yanks seem to run the cast manifolds without any problems...

not the ideal setup granted but for those wishing to `go single` without spending an arm and a leg it seem to be a viable option, especially if your BHP goals are 500-600 bhp.

I know one of the Roadracer blokes on SF had no end of problems with tubular manifolds.

surely either one has to be better than the Sound-Performance adaptor for the stock manifold, again tho a lot of people seem to have gone for this option and have gained very good results.

-c-
The problem with those cast ones pictured earlier are the direction changes and angles involved.

Imagine you are 900degC exhaust gas being fired out of the engine....and you go smack into a cast iron wall...its gunna piss you off and make you angry and you'll get all hot under the collar cause of it...

Which translated means higher EGT's due to Kinetic energy being turned into Heat energy. Exhaust speeds are slower and temps up...great just what you want. Not.

Ever seen an F1 Manifold? Ever noticed how they go from 5 pipes into 1 smoothly. The Path of least resistance is the best for an exhaust. It should all smoothly flow together and be in sync with the "beat" of the engine. Merging them is a tricky piece of timing via manifold length.

TBH I'm suprised that there is no accurate software out there yet as CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics (I think)) is getting quite advanced and I would have thought would have lended itself to "Flow Dynamics" with a bit of tweaking....

Or have I got everything arse about face...

[Chris Wilson]

One thing I should have mentioned!! Be VERY VERY sure these manifolds and turbos and downpipes will fit a RHD car, a lot of the US made kits assume LHD http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cry.gif

[Nathan]

Personally I wouldn't be as quick to write-off the Suprastore manifold without seeing more data. Sure, the runner lengths are all over the place, but then the same can be said for just about every other production cast iron turbo manifold. I agree, the gas directional changes are abrubt as everyone says too but then I'm sure you've all seen the stock Mk4 one....?

It's easy to knock something purely from it's appearance but that doesn't mean it's crap. Some cracking turbo engines have been equipped with non-equal length cast iron manifolds and whilst I accept that the Suprastore manifold could indeed be garbage it could also be ideal for those looking for an upgrade over the stock item.

If the manifold in question will flow far more than the stock item (which it looks like it could) and will provide say 550bhp with acceptable EGT's then it looks like a right result to me, but then I haven't looked at the pricing of it.

I will agree that any turbo/manifold coming out of the USA will nearly always not fit the RHD cars. However, the compactness of the cast iron jobbie means that this would be as likely to fit a RHD car as you're going to get.

Regards.

[wez]

Hiya Nathan,

I think we both might be thinking along the same lines here, I agree 100% if I was looking for 1000hp then this would not be suitable but as you suggest for approx 550hp it could be a complete bargin.

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

<-----ducks head ready to be flammed

[Nathan]

My point exactly.

I just looked at the price- bloody reasonable if you ask me. Making castings and moulds isn't a cheap process.

Would be nice to see some power figures but then they would ultimately come from the US which unfortunately often adds BS. Worth keeping an eye on tho..

Cheers

[wez]

I have got the price for my Garrett GT3540 now and I have been told I can try multiple housings until I get what I want, I am also getting ported housings which apparently increases spool without surging.

Just need to make sure the GT3540 will fit onto the cast manifold.

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Nathan]

Hmm....just looked at the manifold again- they have made it with a T4 flange which is not used very often nowadays. The old Cossie boys used to use the T4's for big power but things have moved on now and you can get near 600bhp even from a T25 flange. Not sure what flange the GT3540 comes with but I'd be pretty sure it's not a T4. More likely a T3 or maybe even T25 like the 580bhp GT3240.

Regards

[wez]

GT3240?

580hp sounds good, have u got anymore info on this turbo?

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Chris Rocks]

hardly local but gives good info on the turbos.

Turbos (http://www.mercurymotorsport.com.au/partturbo/turbo.html)

remember that price is AUS$ ?http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

?1 = AUS$2.35

-c-

[Nathan]

Quote[/b] (wez @ Nov. 24 2003,12:44)]GT3240?

580hp sounds good, have u got anymore info on this turbo?

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif
u likely to be buying one from us or from the source of your 3540....? http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

It's an HKS supplied unit. Power capability as quoted from a T25 inlet flange. Uses 0.87 A/R and an external wastegate. Compressor diameter 82mm.

Regards

[wez]

How much do you reckon a second hand cast manifold, waistgate and downpipe should sell for?

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/help.gif

[Nathan]

Which one?! The Suprastore one? No idea!

[Chris Rocks]

you`ll be lucky to find a `used` manifold....any going in the US are usually snapped up locally.

besides with a new one costing $500 ( ?300 ) is it really worth it ?

Wastegates are a different story but personally I`d want a new one so I know it`s history same with a turbo..

that`s just me tho..

-c-

[wez]

I have been speaking with Dusty from MVP and there are two cast manifolds available one is Turbonetics and the other was Power House Racing, apparently the PHR one has more iron and less sand and is better in quality.

They both have T04 turbo flanges.

http://www.mkivsupra.co.uk/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Darren]

Wez, dont forget Paul W had a his old secondhand turbo that came off his PHR setup...May save you a few quid.

[Gaz Walker]

Wez,

I've had a single kit without turbo for sale for ages now, cast manifold. Make me an offer. Brand new...

gareth@envyperformance.com

Gaz.

[dandan]

Any chance of some photos Gaz? Who made the manifold and what about the wastegate?

Thanks

Dan

[Martin F]

Looks like there maybe a new tubular manifold on the horizon. Not sure if its all BS (what's with the photochopped pics ?) but thought i'd pass the info on.

A good friend of mine who runs an established motorsports service business
was recently searching for an offshore source of SS headers for his own
Winston Cup racecar and the IROC series racecars. He found a shop in the Far
East that was already producing some really nice headers for well known
tuners in the JDM market. This shop had no direct representation in the US
and asked him to test the market for them. He just happened to carry back a
polished 316SS manifold for our 2JZ-GTE motor which he showed to me the
other day. We took some pics of it, which Mohd kindly posted here:
http://mkiv.com/tmp/john_cribb/john_ss_supra_header/

The quality of the welding on this manifold just blew me away; it's really a
work of art! I've not seen anything this nice and consistent come out of an
automatic shielded metal arc machine, much less a manual stick welder. The
pics don't do the collector welds justice - they're just the nicest I've
ever seen. Keep in mind this manifold is polished 316 SS, and it's intended
for shows, as 316 probably isn't the best material to use for a real
application, but it does polish up real nice. Production manifolds will be
completely 321 SS, with a 347 grade rod used. The quality of the welding
will not be any different than what's in these pics. Believe it or not, this
is not automated welding - it was done by manual stick welding.....

I'm told these manifolds will soon be available at "well less than" HKS's
price, and they "will not crack". My friend has been in business since the
early 70's and will stand behind these 100%. He's a well known name in the
Winston Cup circles, and I think many people on our Supra lists know or have
heard of him or his business.